In 2016, Brennan Storr published a book called “A Strange Little Place: The Paranormal Secrets of Revelstoke, British Columbia.” Through that work, he met another author, Ian Gibbs, and together, they started a paranormal podcast called The Ghost Story Guys. 

That partnership didn’t last, but the show did; Brennan is still involved, now with co-host Paul Bestall at his side. Paul is also a podcast veteran with an indie show of his own, Mysteries and Monsters. We talked to the two of them about being self-taught audio creators, how to really prep for interviews, and what going viral on Instagram does—and doesn’t—get you as a podcaster. This interview has been edited and condensed for length and clarity. 

How did you handle the transition from being friends to being co-workers?

Brennan: I think it was around June of 2020 that Paul asked if I had any suggestions for tweaking his show. I had a few suggestions, because I had to learn all this stuff myself. I knew nothing about audio when we started Ghost Story Guys. Our first episode was recorded using a Zoom H2N mic in the middle of the table between us. I was in the worst physical condition a man can possibly be in, so I was wheezing like an old train. It was just godawful. So I had to teach myself over time. 

I said to Paul, “If you want to deliver me the files before you put them together, I'll process the audio for you. I'll just do some noise reduction, some leveling.” So that's kind of how we started working together. 

If you listen to the early episodes with me and Paul, I was in a very difficult place, right? You can't fire someone and look like a good guy. I have my reasons and I stand by them, but still—it was like going through a divorce with 10,000+ people watching. 

And so I spent a lot of 2021 going through a fog. I was just lucky that Paul is a really strong person, and was able to navigate all that crap. I was afraid to ask anything of him, because my previous professional relationship had not been very good that way. So I'd say the first year was more friends. And it's reflected in the audio. We do more talking than we do telling stories. 

But over time that dynamic has evolved where I've become more comfortable being the one pushing the show forward on a technical level, and being able to relax into having a person on air with me who can roll with the punches, but also is himself a really powerful presence who has a lot of knowledge. 

Paul, how did you develop that on-air presence when you started Mysteries and Monsters?

Paul: I'd been listening to podcasts for probably about 10 years, so I had an idea of the kind of show I liked, and the kind of show I didn't like.  

Essentially, I bought everything and made the decision after a very deep and troubling personal and health crisis. Basically, my life began from April 2018 onwards, and part of that process of helping me recover was eventually launching a podcast. 

But I had my microphone on a shelf staring at me for six months, because I was terrified. Not because I didn't know what I was talking about, but because what I knew about podcasting you could write on a stamp. 

Brennan was one of those people I reached out to when I was first launching, along with a couple of other podcasters. Everybody was very generous and kind with their time. 

When I look back on the first 12 months, I'm deeply embarrassed by it. Because it's one man floundering as he learns everything about podcasting in front of the world. But we got there.  And since then, it's been one of the most joyous decisions I've ever made.

Yeah, I hear that a lot doing these interviews—people saying, oh god, the whole first year is awful. Don’t ever listen to it.

Brennan: I didn't listen to a ton of podcasts before I got into the show, but mostly I listened to atheist comedy podcasts. I got it in my head that I couldn't be me—I had to be a heightened version of me. 

I never thought the show would get traction, quite frankly. But it did, and I realized, okay, people are starting to react to me like I'm really that person. This has to stop. 

‎How did you start finding and building your audience?

Paul: [With Mysteries and Monsters] it's one of those things that’s essentially grown entirely organically. I'd already got relationships out there in the podcast world with listeners of other programs who knew that I knew about particular topics. 

We launched the show, and it picked up and it was doing all right. It was trundling along.  And then COVID happened, and my audience doubled overnight. I didn't do anything. I don't know if it was that people were desperate to listen to a grumpy man from England talking about Bigfoot? I'm not sure. 

I tend to speak with authors and investigators rather than just the general public. I suppose that elevates me into a different niche, because I'm sort of dealing in a specialized area, but in a way that's accessible. We'll be talking about things that might frighten you or make you think, what the hell's going on here? But we don't use a language or a level of communication that's above anybody. You pitch it in the way that you want to be involved as a listener, I think, and that seems to work very well. 

And Brennan, how did you build the audience for Ghost Story Guys?

Brennan: It was sort of a lucky confluence of timing, because [my book] “Strange” had come out in August of 2016. I was still doing the press cycle by the time [Ian and I] were having the podcast conversation. And then Shannon Legro, who has a podcast called Into the Fray, she approached me about coming on her show in February of 2017. I said to Ian, “Look, this seems like an ideal time to tell someone, Hey, I got a podcast, right?” Because her show has a really sizable audience. So we rushed to get it out. 

I pretty quickly got in the habit of trying to tie the show to things that people were talking about. So the Slender Man documentary was just about to come out. I'm a giant movie nerd, so I said, well, let's go for it. Slender Man's not a real thing, obviously. That is just a creepypasta that got married to a terrible tragedy. We did our first episode on Slenderman, so I think that helped, too. 

During the press cycle for “Strange,” I had made a lot of connections within shows in our field. So when Ian's book [Victoria's Most Haunted: Ghost Stories from BC's Historic Capital City] was coming out, I reached out to some of those people, because his publisher didn't really know that world. There's a fellow in our niche who's probably one of the top shows, Jim Harold. He does Jim Harold's Campfire and the Paranormal Podcast. Jim's a diamond, like he's genuinely just the sweetest guy. I put Ian in touch with his booker and she ended up getting him on the main show.

That rocketed our numbers. I think we were maybe like 300 downloads a show at that point, and then having him on that show, that put us over a thousand. 

I also maintained a pretty good relationship with my publisher, Llewellyn, and they started giving me their authors so I could have interviews with someone. All that stuff had a knock-on effect. 

Social media was almost not really super relevant for us back then. It's become more relevant now. Our Instagram has really blown up. 

Paul: The Ghost Story Guys Instagram is now over, what is it, 125,000 followers? It all started with a clip of some camels having fun, shall we say, on a road. And that just, it blew up. It went mad. Several million views. We've ended up with a strange situation of having a lot of followers who seem to miss the fact that we do a show. I'm quite comfortable admitting that our Instagram is vastly more popular than our podcast has ever been. 

Talk to me about the technical aspects of making the show. Brennan, you’re self-taught—what all did you teach yourself?

Brennan: I had a Zoom H2N that I used to use for interviews for the book. It sounded like hot garbage. It is a blue eyed miracle that anyone listened.

I started out using Audacity, like most people do. But there's a lot of stuff I just didn't know. Like I didn't know that our early shows were so quiet because I didn't know how to match. And then I think it was for episode four, I shelled out some cash. I had just sold my house at that point to buy into a business—that's a very long story that I won't get into. But at that point, I invested a little cash. I bought a couple of Behringer B1 mics. I bought a Mackie ProFX mixer. 

Eventually I graduated to using Adobe Audition because I read about it online, and realized that they had a lot of filters that would allow me to  put a professional sheen on the show, and make it appear much more professional than we were.

I realized two things when we started. The first was, I'm Canadian, but I didn't want to be a Canadian podcast. I'd read multiple places that that was commercial death. I wanted to point us towards the American market, where the numbers are. 

The second thing was, we wanted to pretend like we're bigger than we are, like a rat standing on its hind legs. 

Victoria, where I was living at the time, we were a tourist city. So we actually had listeners come there just to visit the city. And then we'd say, well, if you're in town, we'll have a meet up. And I tell you, it looks great when you have a meet and greet in year one, right? You look bigger than you are. 

At one point we started recording in these jam band spaces, but they sounded like crap. The Behringer condenser mics, they were just picking up everything. It was a nightmare. So I needed something more directional. About that time I learned that the music company Long and McQuaid lets you finance equipment. So I went and rented us a couple of Shure SM7’s and an interface and sold everything else.

And then what does your workflow look like?

Brennan: We record the show every Thursday. We record on the Riverside platform. Recordings typically last, for the main shows, four hours. And for the mail show, it's three hours. Usually less. We try to get it done in less, ‘cause quite often the mail show falls on the same day as our monthly live show for Patrons. And the live show kicks my ass. So I always try to get it all done as quick as possible. 

I record my audio locally in Audition. Then I take my tracks off the computer, Paul's tracks from Riverside, I level them out, toss them into iZotope 11, and I run a couple passes of noise reduction. 

Then I pop it back into Adobe and I go through each track, individually, so Paul's side and my side, and I remove all the breaths, clicks, any time we talk over each other, I'll mute that out, and then I combine the two tracks together and do the proper edit. 

That’s on Thursdays. On Saturdays, I design the cover art, and I assemble it for our subscribers on Patreon, YouTube, Apple Podcasts. I distribute it out to those subscriber channels, program the public releases, write the show notes, do the cover art for YouTube.

While I'm editing it, I will make notes of bits I think will make good clips for social media,  because Riverside is really good at allowing you to clip out bits for that. I don't ever want to go full video. I don't care what anyone says. Pivot to video is stupid. But it is nice having little bite sized clips for social media.

So you’re always working weekends.

Brennan: I'm really bad at that. I sometimes take Fridays and Tuesdays off from the podcast at least. Maybe I do other things. But from Ghost Story Guys, I try to take Fridays and Tuesdays off. 

One of the things I had to teach myself was that this isn't me. It's a cool job and I love it. It's been a gateway to a lot of cool stuff, but it's still the job. And I have to take care of myself and have a life outside of that. My family, we work like it’s our religion. 

But the other thing I had to learn is that your listeners are not your friends. I love our listeners. I genuinely do. I care about them, but they're not my friends.

How do you monetize the show?

Brennan: I'm the primary financial beneficiary from the show—I mean, I still don't make enough money. Periodically I pick up corporate audiobook jobs, or for a while I delivered food, which I was not really thrilled about but I'd done it during the pandemic, so I had some experience at least. 

Patreon really is the primary way to do it. I've sort of had this confirmed by talking to other podcasters who have much bigger shows than we do, that we sort of have an outsized community for a show of our scope, in terms of paid subscribers. I think it's because people connect with the show.  

Apple Podcasts—to a much lesser degree, but that has been helpful. Advertising is several orders of magnitude smaller. We do dynamic ads, host-read ads. 

I sent Paul our first month of Instagram royalties. For 120,000 followers, since January, we made a big fat 25 bucks.  

What advice do you have for people who want to start a podcast?  

Paul: I would say: go for it. Investigate. Plan, and research wherever you want to talk about.  

If you're passionate about something, don't presume that you know everything about it. Make sure that, especially if you've got guests on, you research your guests. Listen to previous interviews they've done with other people. Make the guest the focus point of what you want to do.

I read every book of every author that I've ever interviewed on the show. I've watched every documentary they've done. I've seen everything they've done. I make sure I know them almost as well as they do. And I pride myself on making sure that I listen to their last three interviews, and make sure I don't cover anything they've done in those. 

Brennan: If you're gonna do it, do it properly. Prepare. Pick a thing you like. Keep at it, be consistent. Pick a release schedule that is realistic to your lifestyle. Don't think it has to be weekly, because that is nonsense.

It's gonna become a slog at some point. It's gonna stop being fun. That's part of it. There's going to be a point where you have to keep investing in it and choose to invest in it. Otherwise, it's just going to grind to a halt. 

You are not everything. so it helps to incorporate other people's points of view. If your show isn't set up for guests, run it past other people. Get their opinions on it. A thing is more powerful when it is made up of many parts, as opposed to one single piece, and so don't be afraid of other people's perspectives. Don't be ruled by them, but don't be afraid of them either. 

And keep learning. I do another show called Weird Together, where me and a sociology professor from Georgia Southwestern University, we examine sociology behind independent horror films. He told me once that he read—it’s probably a Malcolm Gladwell thing or something—every time you do something, try to be 1 percent better at it.

Hang around, learn from people who know more than you. Don't be afraid of being the least knowledgeable person in the room. In fact, seek that shit out because that's where you will learn. You got to be uncomfortable. It's going to suck. You're going to feel like a dumbass sometimes. I've done all these things, but you get better and that's the best you can do, right?